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[中华脊梁] 英国Nature杂志终于为抹黑叶诗文道歉

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发表于 2012-8-6 11:02 AM | 显示全部楼层 |阅读模式


本帖最后由 Kami 于 2012-8-6 12:32 PM 编辑

http://www.nature.com/news/why-great-olympic-feats-raise-suspic

由于中国人有理有力的反驳,英国Nature杂志左支右突,道歉文一改再改,终于承认原文漏洞百出!

EDITORS’ NOTE (updated 6 August 2012)
This article has drawn an extraordinary level of outraged response. The volume of comments has been so great that our online commenting system is unable to cope: it deletes earlier posts as new ones arrive. We much regret this ongoing problem. The disappearance of some cogent responses to the story has fuelled suspicions that Nature is deliberately censoring the strongest criticisms. This is absolutely not the case: Nature welcomes critically minded discussion of our content. (We intentionally removed only a few comments that violated our Community Guidelines by being abusive or defamatory, including several that offensively stereotyped the many Chinese readers who commented on the story.)

Many of the commenters have questioned why we changed the original subtitle of the story from “‘Performance profiling’ could help catch sports cheats” to “‘Performance profiling’ could help dispel doubts”. The original version of the title was unfair to the swimmer Ye Shiwen and did not reflect the substance of the story. We regret that the original appeared in the first place. We also regret that the original story included an error about the improvement in Ye’s time for the 400-metre individual medley: she improved by 7 seconds since July 2011, not July 2012. We have corrected the error.

We apologize to our readers for these errors, and for the unintended removal of comments because of technical issues with our commenting system. Below we reproduce one of the most thorough and thoughtful of the hundreds of responses we received. Beneath it, we continue with our response.

FROM LAI JIANG, Department of Chemistry, University of Pennsylvania
It is a shame to see Nature — which nearly all scientists, including myself, regard as one of the most prestigious and influential physical-science magazines — publish a thinly veiled biased article like this. Granted, this is not a peer-reviewed scientific article and did not go through the scrutiny of picking referees. But to serve as a channel for the general populace to be in touch with and appreciate science, the authors and editors should at least present the readers with facts within the proper context, which they blatantly failed to do.

First, to identify Ye’s performance increase, Ewen Callaway compared her Olympic 400-metre IM time with her performance at the World Championships in 2011 (4:28.43 and 4:35.15, respectively) and concluded that she had an “anomalous” improvement of around 7 seconds (6.72 s). In fact, her previous personal best was 4:33.79 at the Asian Games in 2010. This leads to an improvement of 5.38 seconds. In a sporting event in which 0.1 s can be the difference between the gold and silver medal, I see no reason for 5.38 s to be treated as 7 s.

Second, as previously pointed out, Ye is only 16 years old and her body is still developing. Bettering oneself by 5 seconds over two years may seem impossible for an adult swimmer, but it certainly happens among youngsters. An interview with Australian gold medallist Ian Thorpe revealed that his 400-metre freestyle time improved by 5 seconds between the ages of 15 and 16. For regular people, including Callaway, it may be hard to imagine what an elite swimmer can achieve as he or she matures and undergoes scientific and persistent training. But jumping to the conclusion that it is “anomalous” based on ‘Oh that’s so tough I cannot imagine it is real’ is hardly sound.

Third, to compare Ryan Lochte’s last 50 metres to Ye’s is a textbook example of ‘cherry-picking’ your data. Yes, Lochte was slower than Ye in the last 50 metres, but Lochte had a huge lead in the first 300 metres, so he chose not to push himself too hard and to conserve his energy for later events (whether this conforms to the Olympic spirit and the ‘use one’s best efforts to win a match’ requirement that the Badminton World Federation recently invoked to disqualify four badminton pairs is another topic worth discussing, though probably not in Nature). Ye, on the other hand, was trailing behind after the first 300 metres and relied on freestyle, in which she has an edge, to win the race. Failing to mention this strategic difference, as well as the fact that Lochte is 23.25 seconds faster (4:05.18) than Ye overall, creates the illusion that a woman swam faster than the best man in the same sport, which sounds impossible. Putting aside the gender argument, I believe this is still a leading question that implies to the reader that there is something fishy going on.

Fourth is another example of cherry-picking. In the same event, there are four male swimmers who swam faster than both Lochter (29.10 s) and Ye (28.93 s) in the final 50 metres: Kosuke Hagino (28.52 s), Michael Phelps (28.44 s), Yuya Horihata (27.87 s) and Thomas Fraser-Holmes (28.35 s). As it turns out, if we are just talking about the last 50 metres in a 400-metre IM, Lochter is not the example I would have used if I were the author. What kind of scientific rigorousness is Callaway trying to demonstrate here? Is it logical that if Lochter is the champion, we should assume that he leads in every split? That would be a terrible way to teach the public how science works.

Fifth is the issue I oppose the most. Callaway quotes Ross Tucker and implies that a drug test cannot rule out the possibility of doping. Is this kind of agnosticism what Nature really wants to teach its readers? By that standard, I estimate that at least half of the peer-reviewed scientific papers in Nature should be retracted. How can one convince the editors and reviewers that their proposed theory works for every possible case? One cannot. One chooses to apply the theory to typical examples and to demonstrate that in (hopefully) all scenarios considered, the theory works to a degree, and that that should warrant publication until a counterexample is found. I could imagine that Callaway has a sceptical mind, which is crucial to scientific thinking, but that would be put to better use if he wrote a peer-reviewed paper that discussed the odds of Ye doping on a highly advanced, non-detectable drug that the Chinese have come up with in the past 4 years (they obviously did not have it in Beijing, otherwise why not use it and woo the audience at home?), based on data and rational derivation. This article, however, can be interpreted as saying that all athletes are doping and the authorities are just not good enough to catch them. That may be true, logically, but definitely will not make the case if there is ever a hearing by the governing body for water sports, FINA, to determine if Ye has doped. To ask whether it is possible to obtain a false negative in a drug test looks like a rigged question to me. Of course it is possible: other than the athlete taking a drug that the test is not designed to detect, anyone who has taken quantum 101 will tell you that everything is probabilistic in nature, and so there is a probability that the drug in an athlete’s system could tunnel out right at the moment of the test. A slight chance it may be, but should we disregard all test results because of it? Let’s be practical and reasonable, and accept that the World Anti-Doping agency (WADA) is competent at its job. Ye’s urine sample will be stored for eight years after the contest for future testing as technology advances. Innocent until proven guilty, shouldn’t it be?

Sixth, and the last point I would like to make, is that the out-of-competition drug test is already in effect, which Callaway failed to mention. As noted in the president of WADA’s press release, drug testing for Olympians began at least six months before the opening of the London Olympics. Furthermore, 107 athletes have been banned from this Olympics for doping. That may be the reason that “everyone will pass at the Olympic games. Hardly anyone fails in competition testing” —  those who did dope have already been caught and sanctioned. Callaway is free to suggest that a player could have doped beforehand and fooled the test at the game, but this possibility is certainly ruled out for Ye.

Over all, even though Callaway did not falsify any data, he did (intentionally or not) cherry-pick data that, in my view, are far too suggestive to be fair and unbiased. If you want to cover a story of a suspected doping from a scientific point of view, be impartial and provide all the facts for the reader to judge. You are entitled to your interpretation of the facts, and the expression thereof in your piece, explicitly or otherwise, but showing only evidence that favours your argument is hardly good science or journalism. Such an article in a journal such as Nature is not an appropriate example of how scientific research or reporting should be done.

EDITORS’ NOTE (continued)
The news story was triggered by a debate that was already active, concerning the scale of Ye Shiwen’s victory. Such debates have arisen over many outstanding feats in the past, by athletes from many countries, and it is wrong to suggest, as many of the critics do, that we singled her out because of her nationality.

The story’s intention as an Explainer was to examine how science can help resolve debates over extraordinary performances, not to examine those performance statistics in detail. Several analyses done by others convinced us that it was fair to characterize Ye’s performance as ‘anomalous’ — in the sense that it was statistically unusual. But we acknowledge that the combination of errors discussed above and the absence of a more detailed discussion of the statistics (which with hindsight we regret) gave the impression that we were supporting accusations against her, even though this was emphatically not our intention. For that, we apologize to our readers and to Ye Shiwen.
Tim Appenzeller Chief Magazine Editor, Nature
Philip Campbell Editor-in-Chief, Nature

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发表于 2012-8-6 11:13 AM | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 Jinan90 于 2012-8-6 12:14 PM 编辑

欢呼

感谢无数到网站发声的中外人士

感谢饶毅


“For that, we apologize to our readers and to Ye Shiwen.

Tim Appenzeller Chief Magazine Editor, Nature

Philip Campbell Editor-in-Chief, Nature”

    
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发表于 2012-8-6 11:16 AM | 显示全部楼层
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发表于 2012-8-6 11:58 AM | 显示全部楼层
纯属大老爷们欺负小姑娘,
可惜了英国绅士的身份。
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发表于 2012-8-6 12:01 PM | 显示全部楼层
Kami 发表于 2012-8-6 12:02 PM
http://www.nature.com/news/why-great-olympic-feats-raise-suspic

由于中国人有理有力的反驳,英国Nat ...

我脚得。。。
一开始, 就应该有ZF 暗里支持的"民间组织","科学社团" 号召全体中国人, 海外华人抵制NATURE 和其系列杂志。。。

看看NATURE 的主编多久给华人下跪。。。'

这次奥运会, 彻底暴露大阴滴国这个"破落户" 的极端的阴暗心理, 从上到下, 整个一个LOSER 心态。 中国应该在国内大力的揭露这个心理卑劣的国家, 让那些留学垃圾赶快别大把的给人送钱了。。。
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发表于 2012-8-6 12:05 PM | 显示全部楼层
九天 发表于 2012-8-6 12:58 PM
纯属大老爷们欺负小姑娘,
可惜了英国绅士的身份。

"英国绅士" 你高看他们了。。。不就是TMD 的一群男盗女骖, 坏事做尽的白垃圾。。。
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发表于 2012-8-6 12:23 PM | 显示全部楼层
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发表于 2012-8-6 12:24 PM | 显示全部楼层
6th-Sense 发表于 2012-8-6 01:05 PM
"英国绅士" 你高看他们了。。。不就是TMD 的一群男盗女骖, 坏事做尽的白垃圾。。。

老大犀利

不抱幻想

俺吃过英国鬼子的大亏
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发表于 2012-8-6 12:30 PM | 显示全部楼层
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发表于 2012-8-6 12:37 PM | 显示全部楼层
Jinan90 发表于 2012-8-6 01:24 PM
老大犀利

不抱幻想

阴国人, 是一群"高度卑劣化"的杂种, 过去10几 年交往过的阴国人, 从群体而言 "卑鄙"是他们的共性, 从个体而言, 有那木几个好的。。。跟大熊猫般的珍贵。。。

对这个从1840 以来对中国坏事做尽的无耻之国, 中国人要尽可能的揭露它的极端的"伪善", 同时支持它的敌国, 低调而"实在" -- 比如向阿跟廷卖出几十条核潜艇, 先进的火炮系统, 就是那个能COVER 280-360KM 的火炮,岸边一架, 把马岛打成灰。。。支援几万枚导弹能把阴国的航母打成筛子。。。要不再支援3000 万光棍, 告诉他们帮阿干翻阴国, 大阴博物馆的宝贝随意拿。。。
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发表于 2012-8-6 12:44 PM | 显示全部楼层
6th-Sense 发表于 2012-8-6 01:37 PM
阴国人, 是一群"高度卑劣化"的杂种, 过去10几 年交往过的阴国人, 从群体而言 "卑鄙"是他们的共性, ...

衡量一个国家或民族,需要把有些个体的表现同它作为一个整体的大方向区分

任何一个国家或民族都有无数在日常生活中很礼貌很和善的个体,但是它这个国家的政策友好或敌视完全是另一码事。
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发表于 2012-8-6 12:51 PM | 显示全部楼层
Jinan90 发表于 2012-8-6 01:44 PM
衡量一个国家或民族,需要把有些个体的表现同它作为一个整体的大方向区分

任何一个国家或民族都有无数 ...

就是。。。
做为整个国家, 一直持续不懈的想破坏中国的。。。这个地球上真他妈的就是阴国这个破落国。。。其他的西方国家如德国, 美国等算相对的理性。。。
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发表于 2012-8-6 01:22 PM | 显示全部楼层
Kami 发表于 2012-8-6 12:02 PM
http://www.nature.com/news/why-great-olympic-feats-raise-suspic

由于中国人有理有力的反驳,英国Nat ...

道歉就好,我们要允许别人改正错误。
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发表于 2012-8-7 12:22 AM | 显示全部楼层
回复 6th-Sense 的帖子

历史上 要是中国,美国,德国这三个国家结盟就好了。

历史上德国威廉皇帝发出的倡议,清政府响应,派特使去美国。

当然英国日本不支持。
散布谣言,說中国有鼠疫,使得德国皇太子取消访华。
还把 清政府特使 滞留在日本1个月,误了大事。
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发表于 2012-8-7 12:44 AM | 显示全部楼层
I read it somewhere. A good one.

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 楼主| 发表于 2012-8-7 03:55 AM | 显示全部楼层
任大先生 发表于 2012-8-6 02:22 PM
道歉就好,我们要允许别人改正错误。

不容易啊,几次改动道歉,从先开始死不认账,到最后这篇还像点样子的道歉,没有华人声势浩大的据理力争是不可能的。当然,这次最终改了,说明还是要点面子的,更想以后继续站在道德高地。在传媒这方面,华人要走的路还长,什么时候兼收并购做大做强了才能谈谈软实力了。
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发表于 2012-8-7 04:30 AM | 显示全部楼层
Kami 发表于 2012-8-7 04:55 AM
不容易啊,几次改动道歉,从先开始死不认账,到最后这篇还像点样子的道歉,没有华人声势浩大的据理力争是 ...

有人,替别人原谅洋鬼子,麻利着呢。
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发表于 2012-8-7 05:45 PM | 显示全部楼层
Kami 发表于 2012-8-7 04:55 AM
不容易啊,几次改动道歉,从先开始死不认账,到最后这篇还像点样子的道歉,没有华人声势浩大的据理力争是 ...

说明:中国人要团结。
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 楼主| 发表于 2012-8-7 08:46 PM | 显示全部楼层
任大先生 发表于 2012-8-7 06:45 PM
说明:中国人要团结。

对头!
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发表于 2012-8-20 11:32 AM | 显示全部楼层
6th-Sense 发表于 2012-8-6 01:05 PM
"英国绅士" 你高看他们了。。。不就是TMD 的一群男盗女骖, 坏事做尽的白垃圾。。。

the royal family are actually drug dealers,  it is their tradition. Fxxk the queen........ LOL
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