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楼主: danny1025

[原创] 2008 之后的银行业

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发表于 2008-3-29 06:42 AM | 显示全部楼层


原帖由 danny1025 于 2008-3-28 23:58 发表   why? bank industry bad doesn't mean I will lose my job, don't even need to worry! you thinked wrong way. dont think everyone here is misleading people, I am just telling everyone the t ...



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发表于 2008-3-29 09:17 AM | 显示全部楼层

I am working at banking industry, I sort don't agree with your idea For sure domestic market especially retail and commercial business would be hudgely impacted by recession and lack of buying power in cosumer market.

 

 

However, most banks are not dependent on retail and commercial business only, especially investment bank. Around two months ago, everyone is bearish about banking industry, then what happened, Fed steps up to provide "loans"(let's say tax payer's money) to save Banking industry.

 

 

Can you foresee what Fed would do later? You don't, the only thing you know is that Fed would do whatever he can to support Wall Street. Investment banks especially wall street top leaders don't earn money by their equity investment. It is not 90s when banks don't have option but go with economic ups and downs, with structured products and deriative and globalization, Ibanks have a lot of options to make money by betting down turn and invest globally. Current subprime crisis would finish and I could sense Fed's move towards it. Frankly CDO and CMO are not bad investment products. They are risky but they could provide a large return. Many banks have been buying CDO and CMO for very cheap now to bet market would go up. What would eventually bring those price up? yes, it is cosumer confidence, and that's what Fed has been doing, to signal the market I won't let it down.

 

 

If you look at 1998 Financial market crash and modern Fed's policy, you could see Fed has been involved into the market to adjust recession circle more and more often. Remember 98 LTCM's crisis and at that time, no one wants LTCM's position and It is Fed who stepped up to provide all investment banks loans to buy those products if not worthy nothing but very little. Look what happened later on. Morgan Stanley, Merrill Lynch, Goldman Sachs have earned enormous returns from that. Why? because LTCM is still a genius team and they at 98s just happened to meet a bad time to have enough cash(same case with BSC right now). Sure, Financials have been keeping going down and a lot of banks are sold at discount. Did you notice Citibank has already priced under their fair value of business? Do you think they would bankcrupt or do you believe Fed would allow citibank, the biggest player in US goes to bankcrupt? no, definitely no way, so the long term trend for Citi is definitely a going up.

 

 

If you are in investment banking community, you probably heard the news from people from different banks saying that write downs and subprime loss has already priced into Financials. I talked with employees from several major players everyday. It is a common belief that subprime crisis is almost over. Long subprime, short commodity have been a common play for many of us It is not that bad, All major investment banks have higher than estimated result for Q1 2008.

 

 

 I believe in a long run, maybe towards 2009, US would go to recession eventually, but it would be a good year for Financial in 2008. Fed won't stop helping. Just for disclosure. I currently didn't hold any positions in financial market except my ESOP. I am waiting for mid-April to load some.

[ 本帖最后由 重耳 于 2008-3-29 10:18 编辑 ]
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发表于 2008-3-29 09:27 AM | 显示全部楼层

原帖由 littletiger 于 2008-3-28 23:42 发表 Danny, and 老金 I am thinking of joining a bank called Northern Trust (chicago). what is the ranking of this bank among others and This bank sounds to me like a JPM in slightly smaller size. From ...

这个银行过去一直不错,很多有钱有势的人和家族使用它的服务。。。它的现在状况如何,无人可以真正知道。。。小心无大错。。。最近最好远离银行股票!!!。。。。

 

 

 

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 楼主| 发表于 2008-3-29 10:21 AM | 显示全部楼层

原帖由 重耳 于 2008-3-29 10:17 发表 I am working at banking industry, I sort don't agree with your idea For sure domestic market especially retail and commercial business would be hudgely impacted by recession and lack of buying power i ...

 

thanks for sharing your idea, i do understand you don't agree some of my words, what do you actually see something to support your point, you did tell us what you thinking but what's happening right now? let me tell you a simple thing: just happened yesterday, one of my close friend working in a major big bank in california, called me and we were charting about the bank business, beside he told me the problems he has in that bank and the last thing he told me is that he is take off at 5PM which never happened before because they don't have anything to do beside set there and watch each other, he used to making about 80-100k (salary+commission) average per year until last year and this year he is guessing he will making only less than 50k, before this year he need to work until 7-8PM everyday but now he take off 5PM!! this is just a small story which happen right here, right now. and tell you what my salary will be down about 20% this year too.

you don't have to agree with me, but my idea is the more FED try to do to save banks,  it means the more problems banks having. FED is not god as you think, they can't stop this just by cutting rate and fund market 400B, the way they drops rate like this only tell me one thing: they can't handle economy drops this fast, they can't do shit!!!!

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发表于 2008-3-29 10:47 AM | 显示全部楼层

回复 24# 的帖子

Danny, although we have read so many reports about the on-going financial crisis, what is your view of the fundamental problems banks are facing? bank's own problem? or/and the whole economy problem?
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发表于 2008-3-29 11:36 AM | 显示全部楼层

原帖由 重耳 于 2008-3-29 10:17 发表 I am working at banking industry, I sort don't agree with your idea For sure domestic market especially retail and commercial business would be hudgely impacted by recession and lack of buying power i ...

 

Will Citigroup have higher than estimated result for Q1 2008?

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发表于 2008-3-29 11:38 AM | 显示全部楼层

原帖由 重耳 于 2008-3-29 10:17 发表 I am working at banking industry, I sort don't agree with your idea For sure domestic market especially retail and commercial business would be hudgely impacted by recession and lack of buying power i ...

 

Wondering what big names are aggressively loading the subprimes? I would consider them as the best candidates of potential short target, seriously.

Subprime maybe over, prime default just started.

With the job loss and recession ahead, the mortgage default rate is no where to go but accelerating.

With the underlying asset getting sour in acceleration, to hope the derivatives to keep standing is really something beyond wishful. 

 

And, soon bank loans are turning sour, home loans and construction loans, in 1st tier banks like citi and JPM, and 2nd tier regional banks. Not only derivatives.

 

Not now, but we are likely to see another crash in several months.

[ 本帖最后由 pinball 于 2008-3-29 12:40 编辑 ]
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发表于 2008-3-29 11:39 AM | 显示全部楼层

原帖由 danny1025 于 2008-3-29 11:21 发表   thanks for sharing your idea, i do understand you don't agree some of my words, what do you actually see something to support your point, you did tell us what you thinking but what's happen ...

 

Do you guys have to work in banks to earn 80-100k (salary+commission) average per year, working until 7-8PM everyday ?  What leves are you guys in? 

 

 

 

 

[ 本帖最后由 6degrees 于 2008-3-29 12:47 编辑 ]
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发表于 2008-3-29 11:43 AM | 显示全部楼层

原帖由 pinball 于 2008-3-29 12:38 发表   Wondering what big names are aggressively loading the subprimes? I would consider them as the best candidates of potential short target, seriously. Subprime maybe over, prime default just ...

 

熊熊看看pinball同学的阐述。

 

牛牛就算了,牛牛应该不受干扰,大胆往前走,末回呀头。

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发表于 2008-3-29 11:49 AM | 显示全部楼层

原帖由 6degrees 于 2008-3-29 12:43 发表   熊熊看看pinball同学的阐述。   牛牛就算了,牛牛应该不受干扰,大胆往前走,末回呀头。

 

俺骨子里是熊,不过最近披上了牛皮迎接春天,等6月天热了再把牛皮脱掉,换成熊的本色套装  

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发表于 2008-3-29 11:54 AM | 显示全部楼层

原帖由 pinball 于 2008-3-29 12:49 发表   俺骨子里是熊,不过最近披上了牛皮迎接春天,等6月天热了再把牛皮脱掉,换成熊的本色套装  

 

是不是这次Qrt Earning Report就该脱了?股市好象在阴跌么。我瞎说啦。

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 楼主| 发表于 2008-3-29 12:14 PM | 显示全部楼层

原帖由 littletiger 于 2008-3-29 11:47 发表 Danny, although we have read so many reports about the on-going financial crisis, what is your view of the fundamental problems banks are facing? bank's own problem? or/and the whole economy probl ...

 

LT, it's hard to answer your question, fundamental problems won't happen in short time, i don't want to say US economy is going to be bad for next few years or so because i really don't know and no one sure about that, if they say so, they just guessing only! but economy slow down is big part of reason for bank, for pass 5 years, lots of banks are over- expanded, they opened too many branchs and gave out too many full equity loan ( like 90-100% equity) they shouldn't do this if they see economy is going tied up, by mid-2007, these 90% equity loan still easily get booked, these loans might end up with big lose for banks. now most bank stop them but it's kind of late, maybe, i mean maybe banks are not bad as I would imaging if economy not going to be that bad,  but don't think this is over, it's impossible.   BY THE WAY, i post this is NOT for people talking about buy or sell bank share next week or next month, just to give you idea about banks because financial sector is big part of market. i don't care if market go up next week or so, the banks are still not bottom yet for sure.

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 楼主| 发表于 2008-3-29 12:17 PM | 显示全部楼层
as now, Saturday morning. me, working in my branch, no customer so far as we opened 1 hour and 16 mins. i have nothing to do but post staff on 胡同...哈哈......this is weekend, relax...man
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 楼主| 发表于 2008-3-29 12:19 PM | 显示全部楼层

真的很期待MER的ER,, 哈哈, 看看它有多烂

 

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发表于 2008-3-29 12:54 PM | 显示全部楼层

原帖由 danny1025 于 2008-3-29 11:21 发表   thanks for sharing your idea, i do understand you don't agree some of my words, what do you actually see something to support your point, you did tell us what you thinking but what's happen ...

 

you are looking at micro and I am looking at macro situation.

 

I never believe salary cut is negative for a company. It would only let it become more and mroe efficient in a way. Finance is not manufactor industry which number of people working representing the income stream and volume. When is the last time you see Financial stocks dropped because of layoffs in finance industry. Everyone who works in Investment banks know their jobs go with Company's profit, that's why traders are paid with high compensation, to sacriface stability

 

If Fed can't do anything, then DOW has already dropped to 12000 under. What about now? volume decrease because Bear doesn't know what Fed would do next although it make sense to short the market now. Fed did it in 98s to provide loans to Investment banks to save LTCM hole, it could do it again. It is just simple as to use tax payer's money to save wall street. If 100 billion can't make mind, then how about 200 billion, another 200 billion, another lending deposite requirement reduce, how about 39 billion loaned to JP morgan to buy out Bear Stern. Simply Fed won't let Bear Stern bankcrupt, simple like that.

 

Can you forecast next Fed move? No one can, no one could even think about anything I mentioned above

 

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发表于 2008-3-29 12:55 PM | 显示全部楼层

原帖由 6degrees 于 2008-3-29 12:36 发表   Will Citigroup have higher than estimated result for Q1 2008?

 

Did C already dropped more than 50% YTD?:)

 

So you think it should go straight to zero?:P

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发表于 2008-3-29 12:59 PM | 显示全部楼层

原帖由 pinball 于 2008-3-29 12:38 发表   Wondering what big names are aggressively loading the subprimes? I would consider them as the best candidates of potential short target, seriously. Subprime maybe over, prime default just ...

 

What you gotta understand is that subprime has been so bad that it has already been priced. Even the senior traches are discounted huge already.

 

It is not about whether it would go down more and default and foreclose would continue. You think market doesn't know? no, they already know, already priced.

 

So what you are getting now is discounted.

 

You want big names, do your own research, not hard to find. WFC is an example, trying to buy out some of the firms suffering

 

It won't be a bad strategy to buy calls for some of the companies hurted by subprime when their price already falls under $5. Why not, with several cents for an option, I might get a huge gain if one of them are getting acquired

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发表于 2008-3-29 01:04 PM | 显示全部楼层

原帖由 danny1025 于 2008-3-29 13:17 发表 as now, Saturday morning. me, working in my branch, no customer so far as we opened 1 hour and 16 mins. i have nothing to do but post staff on 胡同...哈哈......this is weekend, relax...man

 

hehe, Retail banking, sure it would be affected as I mentioned in my first post.

 

Investment banking? No, no no. hehe, it is now the time to play the market. I Bankers love environment like that,  violibility means money for smart people.

 

talk with your I bankers and you would find how excited they are.

 

Merrill, that's a garbage.

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 楼主| 发表于 2008-3-29 01:13 PM | 显示全部楼层

原帖由 重耳 于 2008-3-29 13:54 发表   you are looking at micro and I am looking at macro situation.   I never believe salary cut is negative for a company. It would only let it become more and mroe efficient in a way. Fi ...

 

 

if you think you are the only one know what's going on, go ahead and buy bank stock for long.haha...DOW holds 12000 means nothing... for how long? 3 weeks? 2 month? you think GS, LEH,MS ER are real number last week? come on, no one stop you to invest in banks,,, if you buy BAC, after many years i am sure you are able to make some nice money... 4th quarter GDP still up 0.6%, what makes that? look around you,if you believe these numbers, you will be the last one to know why market drop like rock.  things are changing everyday, market are changing too, FED saved market before does not mean they can do it this time. my point is even market hold at 12000 or whatever point, financial sector won't get out for next few years. WE CANT LONG THIS SECTOR.

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 楼主| 发表于 2008-3-29 01:17 PM | 显示全部楼层

原帖由 重耳 于 2008-3-29 13:59 发表   What you gotta understand is that subprime has been so bad that it has already been priced. Even the senior traches are discounted huge already.   It is not about whether it would go ...

 

Looks like you are a short term option gambler, we are in different boat, let's stop this issure here. 

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