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三百年的殖民,造就了墨西哥这个伟大国家 ZT

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发表于 2010-10-11 11:57 AM | 显示全部楼层 |阅读模式
http://bbs.wenxuecity.com/culture/440476.html

墨西哥(英语:The United Mexican States),位于北美洲,北部与美国接壤,东南与危地马拉与伯利兹相邻,西部是太平洋,东部有墨西哥湾与加勒比海的阻隔。她的人口位居世界第十一位。官方语言为西班牙语。

墨西哥是美洲大陆印第安人古老文明中心之一,闻名于世的玛雅文化、托尔特克文化和阿兹特克文化均为墨西哥古印第安人创造。1519年西班牙殖民者入侵墨西哥,1521年墨沦为西班牙殖民地。1810年9月16日,米格尔•伊达尔戈-科斯蒂利亚神父在多洛雷斯城发动起义,开始了独立战争。1821年8月24日宣布独立。翌年5月伊图尔比德建立“墨西哥帝国”。1823年12月2日宣布成立墨西哥共和国。1824年10月正式成立联邦共和国。

从1521年到1821年,不多不少,整整三百年。一个人口占世界第十一位的国家,都需要三百年殖民才能成为一个让人羡慕的伟大国家,中国这个人口第一大国,三百年够吗?晓波先生怎么就不能有点创造性,是不是文抄公当久了?是不是崇洋媚外迷住了双眼?你就不能说个二百五十年?就这么个天真烂漫地照搬西方的人,被多少人奉为智者,让人深思。

填表时,您一定注意过:White, Black and Hispanic ... 这 Hispanic就是白人殖民者与当地人的后代。哪一方的男人,哪一方的女人呢?
发表于 2010-10-11 12:06 PM | 显示全部楼层
It's exactly idiotic interpretations like this that makes me sad...
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 楼主| 发表于 2010-10-11 12:12 PM | 显示全部楼层
It's exactly idiotic interpretations like this that makes me sad...
jiuguangw 发表于 2010-10-11 14:06


so tell us, how should we interpret it?
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发表于 2010-10-11 12:18 PM | 显示全部楼层
Mexicans will say it to your face: the god has given you 5,000 years, so what?

Just kidding...
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发表于 2010-10-11 02:21 PM | 显示全部楼层
so tell us, how should we interpret it?
google 发表于 2010-10-11 12:12


When I went to college, one of the required readings for my history class was Agrarian Origins of Modern Japan by Thomas Smith, published by Stanford University Press. You should read this book. The "correct" interpretation of Liu's comment is not literal, but rather a criticism of isolationism. Isolationism was the problem of China since the time of the opium wars and it persisted all the way through the cultural revolution. This comment is directed towards the recent human rights movement, in which the isolationist policy of the Chinese government is resisting western influence in adopting freedom of speech, etc. Do you disagree with this too?

It was idiotic of him to make a badly framed comment, but it's equally idiotic of people to deliberately misinterpret the comment. But I think the essence of the message has to be respected.

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 楼主| 发表于 2010-10-11 02:38 PM | 显示全部楼层
看样子刘的话不是对普罗大众说的,要准确理解他的原意还要博览群书,引经据典才能作出正确的解释?

不过你就那么确定你的理解就是刘的原意?你了解刘说这句话的时代背景吗?他说这句话的时候是80年代初,当时社会文化的思潮是否定一切,全盘西化,刘当时是北师大的博士生,是这一激进思潮的代表人物,“让中国传统文化断子绝孙”就是他当时发表的另一口号

下面是刘前几年发表的另外几篇网文,奇文工欣赏吧:

刘晓波:阿扁不怕中共的武力恫吓
http://www.hutong9.net/viewthrea ... &extra=page%3D1

迎风而立的王千源 -刘晓波
http://www.hutong9.net/viewthrea ... &extra=page%3D1
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发表于 2010-10-11 03:01 PM | 显示全部楼层
看样子刘的话不是对普罗大众说的,要准确理解他的原意还要博览群书,引经据典才能作出正确的解释?

不过 ...
google 发表于 2010-10-11 14:38


Again, you are missing the point. You want to find the absolute truth, which is universally unattainable. What is actually important is pragmatism - the only thing that matters is what is relevant today. Do *you* believe this comment is well-meant, or ill-meant? This is the only thing that matters.

As for me, I would rather believe that this comment was made with the best of intentions for China with a grand picture (for human rights) that we should all work towards. Nothing else matters.
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 楼主| 发表于 2010-10-11 03:16 PM | 显示全部楼层
Again, you are missing the point. You want to find the absolute truth, which is universally unat ...
jiuguangw 发表于 2010-10-11 17:01


这里不是寻找什么absolute truth,这里讨论的就是刘的原意,他的原意非常明显

当然你原意相信他立意存善那是你的选择, 不过恕我愚昧,我是看不到什么善意

看到刘和西方的结合,我想到更多的是锅巴窃夫,鞑赖,我不相信那些鸦片贩子的后代这么热心,就是为了中国的人权,民主
既然他们这么好心,为什么自己拼命印钞票,一面又拼命压制其他国家货币升值?

很巧合炸药奖,逼人民币升值,黄海演习,美国重返亚洲,这些都几乎同时发生
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发表于 2010-10-11 03:28 PM | 显示全部楼层
Again, you are missing the point. You want to find the absolute truth, which is universally unat ...
jiuguangw 发表于 2010-10-11 17:01


So your point? Do you mean Liu's comment was based on his good willing for Human Rights revolution for China? So? Why he prefers the way of 殖民? because it is faster and well-guided shortcut?

Even though, when people who wants better freedom and life need to take the way to be slaves for those elites for 300 years? Can you point out an alternative? This is the point of upset.

Not sure if I misunderstood your English.  No intention to offend anyone, but want to express my points.
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发表于 2010-10-11 05:10 PM | 显示全部楼层
看样子刘的话不是对普罗大众说的,要准确理解他的原意还要博览群书,引经据典才能作出正确的解释?

不过 ...
google 发表于 2010-10-11 16:38



   

这些就送给班长吧,真是白天忙白天的,晚上忙晚上的,不容易啊!

特约茶室的军妓,当时军方给予的名称是「待应生」
图片:5.jpeg.jpg

图片:2.jpg

图片:3.jpg

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发表于 2010-10-11 05:58 PM | 显示全部楼层
Again, you are missing the point. You want to find the absolute truth, which is universally unat ...
jiuguangw 发表于 2010-10-11 17:01


可不可以用中文解释一下?我觉得您的思想西化的利害,也许我错了,中国有中国的国情,目前法制不健全,有很多漏洞,不能完全照搬西方,麦当劳到了中国也要改变口味和配方,何况治国。
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发表于 2010-10-11 06:11 PM | 显示全部楼层
When I went to college, one of the required readings for my history class was Agrarian Origins o ...
jiuguangw 发表于 2010-10-11 16:21



    Good point, a idiotic person gets noble prize, which makes it a joke!
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发表于 2010-10-11 07:13 PM | 显示全部楼层
脱离了中国的国情,什么都免谈.

顶班长!

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发表于 2010-10-12 06:43 AM | 显示全部楼层
When I went to college, one of the required readings for my history class was Agrarian Origins o ...
jiuguangw 发表于 2010-10-11 16:21



闭关锁国确实是近代中国落后的一个主要原因。这个问题起于明朝禁海而不是鸦片战争。到现在已经基本解决了。你知道二战前美国也是ISOLATIONISM盛行吗?难道说当时美国也没民主?至于解放后一度同西方交流少,是由于当时的政治环境造成的,是一种必要的牺牲,而不是长期的国策。
但是你说这是刘的真意却不能苟同。刘应该有清楚表达自己想法的能力,不然怪不得别人曲解他。
再者你把ISOLATIONISM的大帽子扣到中国政府头上,我认为是非常缺乏判断力的表现。言论自由不是绝对的,你在美国鼓吹支持本拉登试试。前两天还有一位同学的帖子提到关于美国的言论自由,有兴趣的可以找找。
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发表于 2010-10-12 09:45 PM | 显示全部楼层
So your point? Do you mean Liu's comment was based on his good willing for Human Rights revoluti ...
fighton 发表于 2010-10-11 17:28



   " Not sure if I misunderstood your English.  No intention to offend anyone, but want to express my points. "


How funny you are!  Google even did not speak English. Google expressed him in Chinese.

Frankly, I think we are totally different type of person---- we have different value system.  We cannot resolve this dispute because you believe first then interpret.
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发表于 2010-10-13 09:31 AM | 显示全部楼层
" Not sure if I misunderstood your English.  No intention to offend anyone, but want to exp ...
noname6688 发表于 2010-10-12 23:45


en? YOu confused me. My comments were to argue with "Mr./Mrs. jiuguangw". Have you completely read my post?
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